Kieron… people wonder where he gets his boots from!

Kieron Pepper is a multi-instrumentalist who’s been playing drums for the Prodigy for the last 8 years. He’s previously had various recording and publishing deals with a couple of his own bands and also does some production work. He plays drums, keyboards, bass, guitar and sings; in his current band he plays bass and sings dual lead vocals. Sissy hooks up with Kieron in Camden Town just before Christmas 2005, in between the London Prodigy shows and a quick jaunt to Italy. He asks our advice on a fine pair of green boots… we agree he should buy them. Boots successfully purchased, we retire to the pub to ask him a few questions:

SISSY: How did you get started playing music?

KIERON: My grandma gave me an old reed organ when I was 9. It had this really bad thumping noise when it started… a bit shoddy but I loved it. I actually only got rid of it recently when I moved and I was gutted to lose it! That was the first instrument I ever played on.

SISSY: Did you have any music lessons?

KIERON: I had about 5 piano lessons but I had to stop because I was cheating! I wasn’t reading the music properly, just reading it once very slowly and learning to play the pieces by ear. The only thing I actually learnt was how to hold my fingers correctly on the keyboard. I used to do it during lunchtime at school because it got me out of doing sport! I was always hanging around the music block at school, playing keyboards. I decided to form a band at 15 with my mates and no-one was playing guitar, so I picked up an acoustic guitar and worked out what the strings were, what the notes were and using my knowledge of the keyboard figured out which were the black notes and white notes, then I could work out chord shapes myself. A year later I bought a guitar chord book and gave myself a pat on the back because I’d worked out the chords correctly!

My first band was The Changelings with my best mates, who I still hang out with! We were very inspired by the Velvet Underground, the Doors, the Cure and The The. It had this very strange sort of 80’s and 60’s thing going on… 10 minute psychedelic guitar solos with Casio keyboard in there. So I was playing guitar and keyboards and singing. Halfway through the band, Dan who was the drummer, decided he wanted to sing and play guitar and I was more into just being in a band rather than cause friction so I said ‘ok, we’ll swap round, I’ll be the drummer and you be the singer.’ So that’s how I got to play drums!

We carried on doing the band through the 6th form. We played our first gig in 1989 at the YMCA in Chelmsford. We were doing lots of gigs around the area but I don’t think we ever actually made it to London, although we were really ambitious!

SISSY: I guess that’s kind of cool in a way; you learnt to play all the instruments by necessity?

KIERON: Yes and I loved playing the drums. I’d originally got Dan into playing the drums at school but when we swapped he had to teach me how to do it properly because I was playing open handed with my left hand doing the high hat.

SISSY: What band did you play for next?

KIERON: After the Changelings I went into a band called Garp, which featured lots of samples and beats so I learned how to play to a click. I was their third drummer; I took over from a guy called Julian who used to drum for Nitzer Ebb. At the time I was into bands like EMF and Jesus Jones, but my transition into the electronic and dance world came via the Soup Dragons, I was a massive fan of theirs. They went through all these different changes; like they were a garage band, then they had a 60’s phase, then they started using loops.

SISSY: Did you get signed?

KIERON: Yes, Garp released a single and a couple of EP’s through a small label called Sugar Records.

SISSY: Can you give any advice or tips on learning to play to a click?

KIERON: Persevere! And don’t say that you’re a drummer who doesn’t need to learn to play to a click; if you want to get work in a band whether you’re sessioning or if it’s your own band, playing to click will save time in the studio that costs money. Especially now that editing is done on things like pro-tools, you need to have everything to a click so you can chop it around. With the Prodigy I don’t use a click live, I play along to sequenced stuff and I can stay in without a click because I’m so used to it!It’s best to choose something high-end that cuts through for a click sound; whether it’s a rimshot or a bell doesn’t matter. When you’re tight with it, the click sound seems to disappear. It’s something you kind of settle into and eventually you get a natural click in your head. When you’ve been playing for a long time you can experiment with playing behind the click or in front of it so you get a sense of being laid back or pushing the feel. Also you have to maintain a groove with the band and make it work with the click.

SISSY: I’ve noticed that when a drummer plays to a click, the bass player has to fit to him rather than them grooving with each other. Do you think that’s a bad thing for the feel of a song?

KIERON: It depends on the band. If the bass player and the drummer have been playing together for a long time they get this affinity and strength of timing that becomes second nature; they lock in so you have to be careful not to let the click destroy that.

SISSY: What other bands have you been in?

KIERON: Garp finished and myself, Jay on guitar and Johnny on bass broke away to form Real TV with Fraggle from Back to the Planet playing guitar and our mate Robin on keyboards. Real TV was more organic; we wanted to break away from all the loops and samples because by the end of Garp we were using them so much that it took away from the actual songwriting process. We liked bands like Compulsion (the band that Jacknife Lee used to be in) and anything punky or funky. We were part of that early 90’s hip hop-rock scene with bands like Skunk Anansie, Rub Ultra and Dub War. We were into jamming our songs out and changing stuff. We went through lots of phases over the course of the three years we were together; we lived in a house together and maybe spent too much time in each other’s pockets. It got to a point where we’d been trying to get somewhere for a long time; we were all skint and it was hard work. We didn’t get signed but it was strange because as soon as we split up, loads of offers came in! We were the only unsigned band to play Phoenix festival in 1996; we were on around 6 in the evening so it was a great slot and a bit of a coup at the time!

SISSY: You obviously had a big live following so why do you think you didn’t get signed?

KIERON: Because of the songs. We were a great live experience… Jay the singer (who later joined Grand Theft Audio) would get up on tables and go mad; really explosive stuff but we never made any decent recordings because the songs were too anarchic and there weren’t too many hooks in there. You’ve got to have a combination of both; lots of energy live and great songs to record as well.We decided that Real TV was going to end, and around the Christmas of ’97 we were going to do our local venue as a farewell gig, so we had in our minds that we were going to do something different within ourselves. Once we’d booked this gig we were rehearsing for it and in the November I got a phone call saying ‘do you want to drum for the Prodigy?’

SISSY: Did you already know them?

KIERON: I’d met Liam through living in Braintree in Essex. I had the little mini-album Real TV had recorded on DAT and I wanted to listen to it. I bumped into Keith Flint in town and asked him if they had a DAT player and if it would be possible to bounce it down onto CD for me. He said it would be cool because he’d heard of Real TV through the local circuit. So it was cool, I went round and met Liam and we got on straight away; we became mates and used to hang out a bit… we discovered we knew lots of the same people from the area. I think because we got on, he felt at ease with asking me to play drums for him rather than trying to work with a stranger. He took a bit of a risk as well, lots of people like the crew were all saying ‘it’s a really bad idea to have live drums, it’s never going to work, we’ll have to change the whole set up on stage.’ But Liam had faith in it and when I was given the opportunity I thought I had to make it work… I knew I could do if I had the chance!

When Liam called me about playing for them, I offered to go round to his house to learn the stuff but he was in Germany. So he flew over the next day with the songs and I learned the set for two weeks. The next thing I knew, I was on stage in Newcastle in front of 9000 people!

SISSY: What other projects have you been involved with?

KIERON: Since I started playing for the Prodigy in ’97, I’ve always continued writing my own stuff on guitar and programmed pieces on my old Roland W30 workstation, which is the same as what Liam used to use originally. And in 1998 I played keyboards and samples for tech-rock crossover band No Santa, which was bass player Charlie Beddoes’ band after she left Rub Ultra.

I’ve done lots of other bits and pieces, but I’m currently forming a new band with Jim Davies who played guitar for the Prodigy and for Pitchshifter. It’s essentially a rock band but there’s beats and loops and stuff going on. Our original demos came out sounding quite metal and when we went out live playing ten dates around the UK with Bullet for my Valentine, just to find out how it would sound, it was great fun. Jim and I are both on vocals and he plays guitar. We have another guitarist called Paul Fletcher and our drummer is Jason Bowld. I’m also playing bass guitar and using a vintage 1970’s keyboard called the Firstman Bass synth, which is like the pedals from an old Wurlitzer organ, but I play it with my hands through a Black Cat distortion pedal.

We’re really excited about the fact that the songs are really good, very strong. Jim wrote lots of the music just with guitars, beats and simple bass. He did it on Logic Audio, which I hadn’t used before; I had a go and started flying on it! I ended up producing the demos for our band, just the instruments and then I started hearing really catchy melodies for 3 or 4 choruses so then we sat down and came up with the lyrics for the verses which in turn gave Jim the confidence and inspiration to write his own melodies and lyrics.

SISSY: Have you got a name?

KIERON: At the moment we’re called the One Condition. We’re not sure if we’ll keep it though because at the moment everything’s in a transitional period. Once we’d done the gigs and realised that we were leaning a bit far to the metal side, we wanted to bring the emphasis on the beats back up… it’s still early days so we’ll see.

SISSY: Is it true that Jim stopped playing for the Prodigy so he could concentrate on this band?

KIERON: Yes, he’s got total faith in this, that it’s time for him to do his own thing.

SISSY: What are your plans for the project in the near future?

KIERON: To basically continue working on the recordings, because the songs aren’t going to go away so we’re using the vocal melodies and reworking some of the parts. With the musicians we have we could play any style so we just have to make the recordings sound fresh and relevant, then reproduce that live.

SISSY: Can you offer any advice to people who are starting a band?

KIERON: If you’re forming a band, the most important thing is to find good people, who can do their job better than you could. Communication is a key thing, being able to talk about things you aren’t happy with. Don’t waste time burying your head in the sand just for the sake of harmony. If your mates in your band are as serious and committed as you are then they’ll understand if you want to question things to make it better. It’s the same in life generally, communication is so important.

SISSY: What about advice on sessioning?

KIERON: Learn to appreciate every style of music; you might not like something but learn how to play every style so you’re adaptable. And don’t settle for what you think is good enough, because someone might want you to try playing something in lots of different ways. It’s essential that as a musician or as a singer you can do everything really tight so rehearse to a click. And be aware that a producer might want to push your boundaries and expect a lot of you.

SISSY: Can you remember the first proper gig you saw? And what your early influences were?

KIERON: I think it was U2; they were definitely an early influence. And early 80’s bands like the Cocteau Twins, the Human League, Adam and the Ants and Blondie. I think the first single I bought was the Eighth Day by Hazel O’Connor, which was a bit strange for a little kid! I used to get off on the sounds that were used on records and the flamboyant style everything had in the 80’s. Although I don’t feel the need to have big hair and big production on the things I do! But maybe the melodies influenced me; I’ve always been into darker melodies. The minor melodic scale plays a big part in a lot of things I do. When the Queens of the Stone Age album Songs for the Deaf came out I was actually gutted because there were a lot of riffs and tunings (like tuning down to C) that were like some of my ideas.

Sometimes I wish that I’d pushed my own thing a bit harder rather than concentrating on the session side of things; time is precious when you’ve got something to prove and you’ve got songs that you think are relevant. Soon enough you’ll hear someone else playing something like one of your riffs on the radio… there’s only so many notes you can use so it’s bound to happen sooner or later!

SISSY: So would you say that while being a session player is great and you get lots of experience and good times, at the end of the day you’re not going to get any long term security out of music unless you co-write a successful song?

KIERON: That’s true, but it could turn out that you have a really good relationship with the person you’re sessioning for and end up writing with them. For example, I did some sessions playing guitar with DJ Hyper where I made some suggestions for parts and I ended up with writing credits on two of the tracks.

SISSY: What equipment do you use?

KIERON: These days you can do everything on a computer but I think that’s lazy. The only advantage it gives you is that you can save sounds. But there’s something about an old keyboard, especially the old Roland keyboards, that sound great. When I could afford it I bought some retro synths like an SH 101 and a Jupiter 8; that’s how I make my sounds.Since I’ve been playing for the Prodigy I’ve been using Mapex drum kits; they’re phenomenal kits, made of maple. The kit I’m using at the moment is the top of the range one called the Orion Classic. Their best starter kit is called the Venus… or the Mars; they’re all named after planets! The Mapex Mars kit is a bit similar to a Pearl Export, which is a good basic kit.For recording guitars I still use my old Peavey T60, which I think is the first guitar Peavey made. Generally I’m into Gibson sounds; I was never into the more twangy Fender sound at all although I do like the Nirvana Jagstang sound because it’s sort of in between a Fender and a Gibson. The Peavey T60 is a bit like that in that it has a sound of its own. It’s heavy but also quite bright. There’s enough different configurations on the knobs and switches to get a range of sounds out of it. When I’m writing I tend to use an Epiphone semi-acoustic guitar. It’s a really slim one that I bought in Australia and I love it. The neck is nice and thin like an electric so it’s easy to play.

With basses, I play a Fender Jazz and an Ibanez, which is a very metal bass; it’s got a slim neck and active pick-ups. For recording I mostly like to use the Jazz because it’s got an old school sound. My favourite pedal for bass and keyboards is the Black Cat distortion pedal I mentioned earlier which is made by a guy in LA. I heard he did a runner or something due to financial difficulties so it’s really hard to get them now. I bought one in a little place down Sunset Boulevard. The first one I had, I was doing a session for Sergio Galoyan who wrote the Tatu stuff and I left it in my car with a rare Spectre bass guitar while I went for a quick drink and when I came back someone had broken into my car and stole the bass and the pedal! The next time I was in LA I went to the same shop and luckily they had one Black Cat pedal left. Spectre basses are quite metal; kind of between a Musicman and a Fender… I really loved that bass!My favourite guitar pedal is a Hughes & Kettner Rotosphere that simulates a Lesley cabinet but for distortion I tend to use amp distortion… the best thing to get a wicked guitar sound is to get a good old amp like a Vox AC30 and crank it up. With amp distortion you can still hear the strings whereas if you’re recording with a distortion pedal it just adds noise and fuzz and you can lose definition.

SISSY: Can you give any good tips on getting sounds in the recording studio?

KIERON: For drums, get a good drum sound from the room; it doesn’t have to be close miked or it can just sound like you’re hitting cardboard boxes. Although if you’re recording on computer you can make a good sound out of anything! But if you want to go for an old school recording technique, I just use three mics positioned left, right and above which is good for that Beastie Boys retro sound. If you want to get a bit more involved then you can close-mic the bass drum and the snare so you have more control in the mix. PZM mics are really useful for ambient sounds and Neumann mics are great for vocals. Also there’s a great new microphone called the Blue Baby Bottle, which is good; you can really shout and it still sounds great because of the compression on it.

SISSY: It’s been great to talk to you, to finish can you tell us any rock and roll stories from your travels?

KIERON: Unfortunately not! All my stories are X-rated or barred!

…………………

We finish our drinks and head off to do some last minute Christmas shopping in Camden market.In between touring with the Prodigy and his own band, you can sometimes find Kieron teaching a Live Performance Workshop at Brighton Institute of Modern Music where they do excellent courses for drummers, bass players, guitarists and singers. As well as tuition on their chosen instrument, part of the syllabus is about getting the students to come together to learn how to be in a band. The topics covered include everything from the economics of the music industry to learning what constitutes a good song and how to construct one. All the lecturers are top-notch musicians with experience in well-known bands. Check out www.bimm.co.uk for details.

A couple of months after this interview, we hear from Kieron again… he’s joined new band Dead Kids whose first single has been released on Fierce Panda records. You can check them out at www.myspace.com/youaredeadkids We asked Kieron for a few words on how it all happened and this is what he said…

‘got asked to join dead kids end of march in a phone call from adam (bass) player, i said i’d think about it once i’d heard the trax. put the phone down. 5 mins later phone rings. it’s eddy temple-morris from xfm, and he asks if i’ve joined dead kids. i say i dunno, then he goes into a rant that lasts about 10 minutes, saying i’d be perfect and this was an opportunity not to be missed. i put the phone down, ear glowing and heart racing. hadn’t been this excited since howlett asked me to join prodigy. you have mail. the mp3’s of 2 dead kids trax arrive on my computer. i listen. i listen again. i’m hooked. i’m in. two days later we rehearse. a week after that, we tour. i’m home.’